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Cardinal Sean O’Malley on the Motu Propio

H/T to Cafeteria is Closed for this one. Cardinal Sean O’malley speaks about the Motu Propio on his blog. Here is a clipping from that post:

They shared with us the Motu Proprio and the Holy Father’s letter explaining it. We also had an opportunity to read the Latin document. We each commented on that, and then the Holy Father came in and shared some of his thoughts with us. The Holy Father is obviously most concerned about trying to bring about reconciliation in the Church. There are about 600,000 Catholics who are participating in the liturgies of the Society of St. Pius X, along with about 400 priest.

The Holy Father was very clear that the ordinary form of celebrating the Mass will be the new rite, the Norvus Ordo. But by making the Latin Mass more available, the Holy Father is hoping to convince those disaffected Catholics that it is time for them to return to full union with the Catholic Church.

So the Holy Father’s motivation for this decision is pastoral. He does not want this to be seen as establishing two different Roman Rites, but rather one Roman Rite celebrated with different forms. The Motu Propio is his latest attempt at reconciliation.

In my comments at the meeting I told my brother bishops that in the United States the number of people who participate in the Latin Mass even with permission is very low. Additionally, according to the research that I did, there are only 18 priories of the Society of St. Pius X in the entire country. Therefore this document will not result in a great deal of change for the Catholics in the U.S. Indeed, interest in the Latin Mass is particularly low here in New England.

In our archdiocese, the permission to celebrate the Latin Mass has been in place for several years, and I granted permission when I was in Fall River for a Mass down on the Cape. The archdiocesan Mass is now at Immaculate Mary of Lourdes Parish in Newton. It is well attended, and if the need arises for an extension of that we would, of course, address it.

This issue of the Latin Mass is not urgent for our country, however I think they wanted us to be part of the conversation so that we would be able to understand what the situation is in countries where the numbers are very significant . For example, in Brazil there is an entire diocese of 30,000 people that has already been reconciled to the Church.

Lack of Interest?

So Cardinal O’Malley seems to believe that the Pope only wanted American Bishops there to see what it’s like in other countries?? I say, Poppycock! The issue of the Tridentine is very significant to Catholics in America. While Cardinal O’Malley’s statements might be true about the number of people who partcipate in the Latin Mass when contrasted with the numbers who partcipate the New Mass, he doesn’t take into account the lack of accessibility and the lack of convenience the Tridentine Mass suffers.

What should be measured, is the amount of interest in the Tridentine which could very well be significant in America. In recent years we have seen that the Tridentine attracts large crowds whenever and wherever it makes a “brief” or first-time appearance: For example here. Also, recent statistics show a steady growth of interest in the Tridentine — take, for example, the stats which Colleen Carrol put forth in her book, “The New Faithful”:

  1. “Time Magazine reported in 1999 that the number of U.S. Catholic dioceses hosting the traditional Latin Mass had risen from 6 in 1990 to 131 in 1999, and more than 150,000 people attended them weekly. The article attributed the increase largely to “Gen-x interest” and quoted several young Mass-goers who were ‘part of a retro-revolt amongst U.S. Catholics.” (page 4)
  2. “In 1997, Fr. Willard Jabusch wrote a commentary piece for the Jesuit magazine America about the conservative bent of young Catholics. He discussed what he had seen as a priest who oversees Catholic campus ministry at the University of Chicago. Among other trends he had witnessed in the past decade, Jabusch noted student interest in the Latin Mass, the writings of Thomas Aquinas, and the early Church Fathers, as well as, in the words of one young convert - ‘a church that will not be shifting under my feet.’ ” (page 81)

Clearly, over the years since the end of the Second Vatican Council there has been an increased interest in the Tridentine, especially amongst the younger generation. In San Diego, California where I somewhat regularly attend the Tridentine Mass, I have seen it grow siginificantly since I first stepped foot there in 1997. Today they have two Masses on Sundays, back then they had one.

Tridentine a means to influence the current liturgy
Finally, as Gerald had mentioned on his blog, Cardinal O’Malley fails to mention that Pope Benedict is no fan of the ordinary missal. And one of the reasons of the Pope for the Motu Propio is also to influence the new Mass; to get it back on track. Pope Benedict, before his Papacy, said,

“What happened after the Council (Vatican II) was something else entirely: in the place of liturgy as the fruit of development came the fabricated liturgy.”

And also:

: “We do at least need a new liturgical consciousness, to be rid of this spirit of arbitrary fabrication. Things have gone so far that Sunday litugy groups are cobbling together the liturgy for themselves. . . . The most important thing today is that we should regain respect for the liturgy and for the fact that it is not to be manipulated.”

So we know that the Pope is not happy with the state of the New Liturgy from the quotes above as well as numerous others. Again, not that the new liturgy itself is “wrong”, but that its implementation has been hijacked. Cardinal O’Malley’s blog post seems to suggest a lack of openness to the coming Motu Propio — implying, in my opinion, that Catholics of the United States can safely ignore this Motu Propio since it largely does not concern us due to lack of interest and that it is only an interest in other countries… One can only hope and pray that the Bishops of America will be receptive of the Motu Proprio and give the Tridentine as Karl Keating once stated, “a fair test”. To supress it further, I think would be a great disservice to the Church and disobedient.

Comments: 65

Comments

Comment from 4unborn
Time: July 1, 2007, 4:04 am

Those of us Catholics who are tired of liturigical abuses and have not given up going to Mass will go to the Tridentine Mass in greater numbers and more frequently when it is not only “available”, but allowed without any conditions set by the local bishop.

Comment from Robert M. Fasanello
Time: July 1, 2007, 5:38 am

The same shepherds who have been silent on sexual morality, contraception, and homosexuality (witness the homosexual priest scandal) have tried always to separate us from “Rome”–that is, Peter. I don’t anticipate they will stop in my lifetime (I am nearing 70, and have seen this my entire life). The Cardinal’s remarks are not surprising to me. They are cause for sadness; but then I have gotten used to that.

All the faithful need to pray to Mary every day for every priest- good, bad, indifferent - so that each may truly mirror her Son by becoming her devoted sons. Then we will all have cause for rejoicing!

Comment from Mimi
Time: July 1, 2007, 6:03 am

Yes, it is true. If the Mass were available without driving 50 miles or more, many would attend. It is too inconvenient as it is now

Comment from Tacia Truss
Time: July 1, 2007, 6:04 am

I just went to my first Latin Mass a few months ago. It was the most beautiful prayer I ever experienced. How could anyone think it was unnessary. I feel jipped that it hasn’t been around.

Comment from Mary O’Sullivan
Time: July 1, 2007, 6:12 am

Tired of the entertainment section of the “Holy Mass” - hand shaking before Communion - (even when people have colds) hugging and back rubs. God has been very patient and it is time for changes back to the Sacred and to truly worship our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Comment from Marie Paulhamus
Time: July 1, 2007, 7:17 am

I am not holding my breath in anticipation of finding the Tridentine Mass readily available in American parishes. I fervently hope that I am misjudging the situation, but past performances by our esteemed Bishops has indicated that if they don’t like the orders that come from Rome, they simply ignore them. I fear we will witness yet another example of their disrespect, insubordination and flagrant disregard for the vows they took, concerning Pope Benedict’s new release.
Can someone explain to my why it looks for all the world like the American Bishops are out to destroy true Catholicism? Surely they are intelligent enough to know what they are doing. In a world where ‘trust’ is a five letter word turned into a four letter word it is heartbreaking that we cannot turn to our church as a safe haven. Make the Tridentine Mass readily available in all parishes throughout the country and THEN start counting heads!

Comment from Adam T. Rucinski
Time: July 1, 2007, 7:22 am

I was raised in the TLM for the first 11 years of my life. Having one foot in the Byzantine Rite, I can realize how much Latin Catholics are being deprived for authentic liturgy. I hope and pray for the sanctification of Bishops, Priests, Deacons and Religious in the USA. Archbishop Burke has it right in the US Church all along. The Western Church seems to have discarded the rich treasury and deposit of faith from the early Church Fathers. God Bless Pope Benedict XVI for the courage to remind the Universal Church of its sacred roots.

Comment from Carolyn M McCarthy
Time: July 1, 2007, 7:41 am

O’MALLEYS LIBERAL IDEAS ARE WHY MANY OF US LEFT THE CHURCH AND MORE WILL-GIVE US THE CHURCH AS IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE- IN THE LATIN FORM-THE BEAUTY AND THE PRAYFUL CHURCH, NOT THIS IDEA OF “COMMUNITY AND CHATTING” THAT SOME OF YOU GUYS HAVE DREAMED UP-WHAT IS WRONG WITH OUR CHURCH IS THE BISHOPS-IF ONLY WE COULD VOTE THOSE BOYS OUT-YOU WANT TO BE PRESBYTERIAN, GO NEXT DOOR BUT LETS GET BACK TO THE TRADITIONAL AND HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH, THE CHURCH BEFORE THE BISHOPS LOST THEIR MINDS——–

Comment from Caithlin O’Duinne
Time: July 1, 2007, 7:43 am

What a shame that the Cardinal is out of touch with the people of God. I would dearly love to have the Mass in Latin everyday!!!!! I know the prayers, responses and the Chanting. I attended Catholic Schools in the 50’s and the dear nuns taught us well. Bring back the glory of the Mass , bring back the joys of the sacraments, bring back the joys of processions, Gregorian Chanting, and most of all Adoration and Benediction of the Eucharist.!!!!!! Put some life back into the church . The Roman Catholics in the United States are not insignificant. We do matter. We do count. Those of us that are in support of the Magesterium may be at times a small number but we are alive and well.

Comment from MarieMarie
Time: July 1, 2007, 7:58 am

My parish has a Tridentine Mass every third Sunday of the month. When I attended the first one, my first one as well, which was a high Mass, I was awestruck! The church was packed with well-dressed parishioners (a shock in itself!). That was the first difference from the Novus Ordo Mass.

The reverence, the heavenly chant, the overall ‘mood’ of the Mass truly elevated one to a higher level of worship! Even little children, who are usually unruly, stood in perfect silence throughout. What beauty!
I felt as though we were truly worshipping our Creator!
During the Novus Ordo at my parish, I am the only person in attendance to drop to my knees to receive the Holy Eucharist on my tongue from my priest.
At the Latin Mass, how beautiful it was for everyone to kneel to receive our Lord, and on the tongue!
We can only pray that the US Bishops realize that the Church in America needs this level of worship to help the many lukewarm laity rediscover our Lord.

Comment from Claire
Time: July 1, 2007, 7:59 am

For real beauty in the Mass, I attend a Novus Ordo Mass prayed/sung in Latin, with varying Gregorian chant Masses for the liturgical seasons of the year, or a local Byzantine rite church where the Mass is sung in English. 100% participation by the congregation, beautiful prayers, unlike the Roman rite. If the translators of the Tridentine Mass had stuck to an authentic English translation rather than dumbing down the words to make them more “contemporary” or more “relevant” or whatever, we might not be in the mess we are today. If the priest still offered Mass with his back to the people, rather than being the showman many have become…if Gregorian chant had been given pride of place, and IF various chant Masses would have been sung, rather than the Mass of the Angels that has been ruined by choirs that did not know how to sing chant, or by its use 52 Sundays of the year, by the use of parts of the Requiem Mass (for heaven’s sake!!!) in the sung Latin Mass promulgated by Pope Paul VI so that people would have “some” Latin to sing, we might not be where we are today. Hopefully Romans 8:28 will be evident in this situation. We must also consider the plight of priests who would like to offer a Tridentine Mass but know when their bishop gets wind of it, they are either severely disciplined, or are GONE from the diocese. The fact remains that the local bishop still holds all the cards…

Comment from Teresa
Time: July 1, 2007, 8:17 am

Very strange indeed. The Bishops and Cardinals in this country haven’t even put into place the new, more accurate responses that are more faithful to the original Latin. I can’t tell you how disappointed I am that they haven’t even done that. There are only a few, maybe five, and we hear nothing.
There seems to be a disconnect from Rome and this is terribly dangerous.

Pray, pray, pray….

Comment from James Dobkowski
Time: July 1, 2007, 8:18 am

First, we must always respect our Church leaders, as scripture and tradition dictates. With that said, I believe as lay people, we need to pray to the Holy Spirit to guide them to recognize the benefits to Latin in the U.S. liturgy.

Sadly, our blessed bishops and priest fail to recognize the division the vernacular Mass causes. For example, the Church that I attend has separate Spanish, Tagalog, and English Masses, creating separate communities within the greater community of this one Catholic Parish. Instead of bringing us together under one roof, in one church, seated in the same pews as brothers and sisters united in one Eucharistic Liturgy, we are strangers who only meet once or twice a year during Festivals and celebrations outside the liturgy. It’s sad. Odd, isn’t it, as the world becomes smaller, thanks to jet travel and internet access, that Catholics are growing further apart since we no longer share a common language during Mass. Our children are flocking to MySpace and YouTube in search of unity instead of their true home — the Church.

So, while we humbly honor our Church leaders, let us remind them to humbly honor the true leader of the Church, the Holy Spirit, who united the first Christians during Pentecost under on Communion and ONE LANGUAGE, through the gift of tongues.

Comment from Margaret Storey
Time: July 1, 2007, 8:19 am

Bishop O’Malley need to spend some time in the pews and listen to what the people want . I have found it is the younger catholics that want sa return to the sacred as mush as the older one. The need for the return of the awalsome sacredness of the Mass is crying from the people . Its the priest and bishops who don’t want to have to learn Latin.
In Jesus and Mary
Margaret

Comment from Missy Farber
Time: July 1, 2007, 8:40 am

The only reason why Cdl. O’Malley thinks there’s no interest in the Tridentine Mass in the new England area is because of its (almost total) suppression. There are people who are waiting in desperation this final week before the motu proprio and hoping at last there will be some light at the end of the very dark tunnel. I thank the Holy Father for his efforts.
~Qui seminant in lacrimis, in gaudio metent.

Pingback from Abbey-Roads2 » Blog Archive » Sunday morning donuts and coffee.
Time: July 1, 2007, 8:41 am

[…] “In my comments at the meeting I told my brother bishops that in the United States the number of people who participate in the Latin Mass even with permission is very low. Additionally, according to the research that I did, there are only 18 priories of the Society of St. Pius X in the entire country. Therefore this document will not result in a great deal of change for the Catholics in the U.S. Indeed, interest in the Latin Mass is particularly low here in New England.” - Cardinal Sean O’Malley […]

Comment from Jennifer
Time: July 1, 2007, 9:24 am

Just wait, he’ll see.

Comment from Jennifer
Time: July 1, 2007, 9:26 am

(continued from above…) What I mean is that when Catholics do fill the pews for the latin mass, he’ll see that there is more interest.

Comment from Adam T. Rucinski
Time: July 1, 2007, 9:36 am

If the good Cardinal would look into the Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP), there is ample resource to excite interest in TLM in New England. As a New Englander by birth, it seems that the ethnic parishes seem to generate interest in authentic liturgy. My contacts in New England have to travel to monasteries to get receive the benefits of TLM and meaningful sacraments. Statistics are only as good as the sample taker and the quality and interpretation of the question asked.

Comment from Magdalen Mauldin
Time: July 1, 2007, 9:42 am

I joined a Latin Mass Community in January of this year and I find myself leaving Mass with a feeling of happiness and Peace. Before then, I have been a member of the Vatican II liturgy. I found myself leaving Mass feeling critical of many parts of the Mass that has been taken over by the layity; with bad music, irreverant clothing, and many other abuses for what should be a Spiritual worship of our Lord. Thanks be to God, I live close to Our Lady Of Mount Carmel Catholic Community, in Littleton, Co. Sincerely, Magdalen Mauldin

Comment from Newt
Time: July 1, 2007, 10:11 am

This “lack of interest” mantra which has been repeated ad nauseum since the Pope John Paul II Indult is just what the article says it is. Poppycock!

In the Diocese of Springfield, Massachusetts, for example, the only Tridentine Mass allowed by the Bishop is on the first Sunday of the month at 2:00 p.m. in one inner city parish in Holyoke. Real “generous” and convenient, right?

In my opinion, the only way Pope Benedict is going to be able to effectively reestablish the Tridentine Mass is going to be if he establishes it as a Rite like the Byzantine or Maronite Rites with its own independent bishops answerable only to the Pope - or if he elevates FSSP priests to the rank of bishop when the disobedient bishops retire.

Unless things have changed substantially - and I doubt they have - if Pope Benedict is going to condition the reestablishment of the Latin Mass on obtaining permission from the local ordinaries here in the U.S. , he needn’t waste his time - however good his intentions might otherwise be.

The disobedient American Novus Ordo Bishops seem determined not to allow the reestablishment of the Latin Mass. Their “solution” to the critical priest shortage here, moreover, has been to suggest parish “clusterings” and/or allow “priestless liturgies” (i.e. “communion services”) and plan for lay-led parishes. God forbid that they should invite FSSP priests or other traditional priests in full communion with the Pope to come in and celebrate the Mass in Latin.

In response to the American Bishops’ complaint that there are no priests who neither know Latin nor how to properly celebrate the Tridentine Mass, the FSSP, for one, has said that it stands ready to teach priests Latin in its seminaries and train them to celebrate the Tridentine Mass.

Oh, and one last thing. Isn’t it possible that the reason why there are currently so few requests for the Tridentine Mass is because the ones who went to the trouble to make requests in the past after the Indult was promulgated by Pope John Paul II and have already been treated like pariahs and/or ignored by our “pastoral” American bishops have; 1. already defected to the SSPX camp 2. attend the abuse-ridden Novus Ordo Masses because they have no other choice or 3. don’t bother to attend Mass at all?

Are the American Bishops still only hearing what they want to hear?

Is the only “language” they really understand the withdrawal of financial support on the part of those of us who are no longer willing to tolerate their one-sided “pastoral” hypocrasy?

Comment from Susan Goeller
Time: July 1, 2007, 10:17 am

Being tired of the “New Mass” I now will drive an hour to go to a Trindentine Mass. Respectifully, does Cardinal Malley have an agenda? The Trindentine Mass that was at Holy Trinity in Boston was moved recently to Newton and the “last church” to be closed. The Trindentine Mass has a large following including young people in their 20’s who are searching for something more then the abuses in the present Mass. He will not know until people are given more oppertunity. As I understand the procomation from the Pope, priests can give the Trindentine Mass without permission of the disocess. I once saw a prediction that “God would one day through out all that Moderism like rubbish.” We will see and let the people speek. Once you see the reverence give to the Eucharist in a Trindentine Mass the other Mass seems to Protestentized.

Comment from virVirginiaPendergast
Time: July 1, 2007, 10:52 am

kNNow our American Bishops will have a wonderful opportunity to practice what they have preached for 40 years: BE OPEN TO CHAnge: rESPECT OTHER CULTURES: we are the church……dONT INTERFERE WITH ANOTHER’S CONSCIENCE: iF THEY WANT TO GO TO A TRIDENTINE MASS: bE LIBERAL: lET THEM.

Comment from Michael Nixon
Time: July 1, 2007, 10:53 am

I think maybe some people might be reading a bit too much into what the Cardinal said, as if he were in some sort of “liberal” or “anti-Roman” and I would respectfully encourage those people to examine their own attitudes towards the subject. O’Malley makes a comment about his own predictions about the number of people who will attend, and automatically his orthodoxy is questioned. It would seem to me that some of the people who commented have some deeper issues- maybe with Vatican II, or even questioning the validity of the “Novus Ordo” Mass itself. If that is the case, then you need to start really reading and engaging with what the Church has been saying, instead of waiting around for a Vatican pronouncement to vindicate your own beliefs. I am a fan of the Tridentine Mass, though I would prefer a properly celebrated Novus Ordo Mass, and I take issue with those who think the Mass is somehow “better” if we hear “Dominus vobiscum” instead of “the Lord be with you”. Just some thoughts. God Bless.
>>I also appreciate the insights from James Dobkowski above, you are right on for the unitive factor of Latin in the liturgy, though I would add that the increase of Latin within the context of the Novus Ordo could also help with that issue.

Comment from Suzanne McGuire
Time: July 1, 2007, 11:13 am

With all due respect, I think the Cardinal is a bit short-sighted. It is true that the Latin Mass has been almost totally supressed in New England. In spite of that, the Latin Mass is the only place one sees younger Catholics, particularly young Catholic families. The young people are simply not interested in their particularly egregious milquetoast (at best) Novus Ordo Masses. That being the case, what is going to happen 25 years from now when those populating the Novus Ordo Masses at local parishes have all passed away and their priests are in shortage? Most of the young, large families’ sympathies are with the Tridentine rite. They are going to more than quadruple their populations in the not-too-distant future. Whether or not they are willing to admit or realize this fact, this is going to alter the liturgical landscape in New England.

Comment from ED R
Time: July 1, 2007, 11:50 am

It’s the attitude of the bishops that prevent those of us who want the Tridintine Mass to attend. 400 petitioners asked for the Tridintine Mass in Greensburg Pa. We were turned down, even though we had 5 Priest’s who volunteered to celebrate it for us. Attitude Attitude!! and it’s an obstinate one.

Comment from John Juan
Time: July 1, 2007, 11:51 am

Suzanne,
I agree with you! I see large Catholic Families at the Tridentine I currently attend. Many young/practicing Catholic families are attracted to the Tridentine for its beauty and faithfulness to Catholic tradition. Also, the Tridentine Priests all seem to be faithful preachers of the truth. The next generation is tired of cafeteria Catholicism!

I must also mention, however, the fact that reverent Novus Ordo Masses also attract large Catholic families. I have attended a Novus Ordo parish with young families that have 5,6,7,8+ children. At this Mass much Latin is used. Gregorian Chant is also present and Mass is said facing the altar.

I think what is important here is to understand that what the youth are attracted to is orthodoxy, reverence, and uncomprmising truth. Whether it comes from a reverent TLM or a faithful/reverent Novus Ordo.

However, the problem here is the New Mass is abused more often than not. As one friend use to say to me, the TLM is virtually an “error-free” zone these days. So while the New Mass can and at times is said reverently, you really have to do your research and seek it out. Otherwise Sunday Mass can quickly end up being Sunday Purgatory!!!

Comment from michigancatholic
Time: July 1, 2007, 12:18 pm

Now the next piece: We have to look around and locate a classical mass and go to it! And take your wallet with you!
Don’t worry–it will be noticed. Let’s show them how “not important” this is to “us,” err, rather “them.”

This kind of happy talk from an American prelate is very telling. They have their power separate from Rome and they like it that way. It’s time to shut this attitude down.

Comment from Jerry
Time: July 1, 2007, 12:45 pm

Thank God for the return of the Mass of the Saints. There is a lot of difference between the Tridentine Mass and the Novus Ordo. When I started attending TLM a Holy Hermit told me that I would not be able to return to the Novus Ordo. I told him that was crazy.HE WAS RIGHT! I can’t go back to the N.O.

Comment from Patricia
Time: July 1, 2007, 1:15 pm

This level of ignorance, which I have heard from other bishops, is inexcusable at this level.

The Holy Father has said that, “For a people to deny that which they had held nost sacred makes the waiting for it seem indecent”.

These bishops in the U.S. are so dedicaded to the onging manipulation of the Mass that they refuse to recognise that there are thousands of us out here aching for the TLM. Some of us that would never go near an SSPX church. The Holy Father has described SSPX as having, I can not remember if the word was, “Tendancy”, or “Temptation”, “To scishm/heresy, with a history of schismatic actions”. Why would I want to go there? We are talking INDULT which has nothing to do with SSPX.

I pray every day that we will have TLM parishes because where ther are parishes 24/7 is where it has worked best.

God Forgive Them They Know Not What They Do.

Comment from Linda D in Rhode Island
Time: July 1, 2007, 1:35 pm

I was raised in the church during the 1950’s and attended Catholic grammar school. I remember daily and Sunday Mass in Latin. My wedding was in 1968 - half in Latin, half in English, during the transition. The first time since the late 1960’s that I attended a TLM was three years ago and to tell the truth, I wasn’t overly impressed. Even though we were given a booklet in Latin and English to follow along, I was lost regarding what was happening. The only parts I really knew were the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Sanctus, the Agnus Dei and I recognized when the Consecration of the Mass and Holy Communion were taking place. For the rest, I felt like a spectator.
I’m a daily Mass attendee. I love the Mass and the Sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus that He has made to redeem us from our sins. I love hearing the Holy Scriptures every day and I love praying the Mass. I treasure receiving the Holy Eucharist.
I’ve been blessed - I’m able to attend Mass in parishes where there is extremely little if any deviation from the rubics of the Novus Ordo Mass set by the Church. I’ve also been to parishes where there is much abuse and I don’t go there more than once. I do feel sorry for those who don’t have much choice regarding where they can go to Mass.
Where I now attend Mass several priests who use the Novus Ordo Mass also incorporate the Latin Gregorian Chant and one priest even faces the Altar during the Consecration. Personally, I would not attend TLM as a rule. I would however prefer if some of the prayers in English found in the TLM booklets could be used in the Novus Ordo Mass. It is magnificent language. I might go to a Trindetine Mass more often f it could be prayed in ENGLISH.
There is parish that has a weekly Latin Mass in Providence RI. I’ve attended Mass there twice. I won’t go again. I can’t go back to trying to speed read the English along with a Latin Mass. I’m not praying when I’m doing that. They also use the old Lectionary - so the Mass Readings do not follow the three year cycle. One of the best things about the Novus Ordo is the proclaimation of most of the Holy Scriptures in three years time. That’s really important!
Back in the 30’s and 40’s Rhode Island had “ethnic” parishes -French, Italian, and Portuguese with their own ethnic music and homilies in their “native” tongue. Those parishes have disappeared. Some parishes now have Spanish Masses. As far as parishes that have Masses in several different languages because of different ethnic groups - I really don’t think that’s a help to the immigrant peoples. In the 30’s and 40’s the immigrants knew they needed to assimilate to the American culture and they learned English. Those coming now should also do that. One parish in Providence has stopped offering separate CCD classes in English and in Spanish - the children have to learn English to succeed here and once they do that - they will want to worship in English and hear homilies in English. Mass in Latin, which these children never heard before, would only confuse things. Imagine having to provide Latin-English Mass booklets and Latin-Spanish Mass booklets, etc. etc. to accomodate the different groups.
I believe most people would prefer a reverent Novus Ordo Mass prayed in English along with dignified worship music and Gregorian chant. I’d really rather not go back to a TLM. I can appreciate the solemnity of them, but I don’t feel the need to go back to it.

Comment from Terrence Cooney
Time: July 1, 2007, 1:53 pm

Well said. I would attend Latin Masses, but the closest is
1.5 hours (one way) south of me.
I tire of the unauthorized changes in the Rubrics and Liturgy
here in California. All you have to do is drive across town to
experience changes. Obedience to Rome is not an option.
The disobedience is disturbing to mind, body, and soul.
Enough. I pray for our priests #1.

Comment from Charles Kraus
Time: July 1, 2007, 1:58 pm

Cardinal O’Malley’s comment regarding low attendance at Latin Masses is somewhat disingenuous. There is a Latin Mass in this area but it is 50 miles distant through heavy traffic. There are many of us senior citizens who would jump at the chance to attend once more the Mass of their youth.
In my view it is much more solemn and transcendent than the Novus Ordo.

Comment from Suzanne McGuire
Time: July 1, 2007, 2:19 pm

John Juan,

I agree - the Novus Ordo can be offered reverently with chant, Latin, kneeling for Communion, etc., but until I left New England, I had not experienced one. Since then, I have experienced the Novus Ordo “as the Council intended” exactly twice — once in Ohio and once in Virginia. I’m sure there are others. And it is true that they attract very large, very Catholic families as well. People are hungering for the truth.

I think it’s the Latin language barrier that’s most often off-putting to most Catholics. I wouldn’t be a bit upset with the vernacular used some in the Mass if it were the vernacular introduced with the old Rite which formulates the prayers so much more beautifully. Though, the nice thing about Latin is that it tends to put a clamp on innovators who don’t tend to be fluent in classical languages.

Comment from Bernadette Shonka, Obl.S.B, M.Mus.Ed
Time: July 1, 2007, 2:22 pm

I hope and pray that a priest in my area would celebrate the TLM on a regular basis. I would be happy to teach Gregorian Chant to those who are interested in forming a choir and a Schola. “The text governs the music” per Somesmes Chant is the perfect medium for sung prayer.

Comment from Newt
Time: July 1, 2007, 2:35 pm

John Juan and Suzanne, you have both made good points.

One thing I am also observing is that some people are talking as if they think that the reestablishment of the Tridentine Mass is going to automatically mean the “abolition” of the Novus Ordo Mass in the vernacular - whatever the “vernacular” happens to be.

This is just simply not true. The idea is to allow both to exist side by side. In fact, Cardinal Hoyos, President of the Pontifical Commission, Ecclesia Dei was quoted as saying:
*************************************************
“There is no turning back, [the Pope] is not leading the Church to a reverse position; the Pope is the Vicar of Christ and has the Holy Spirit who always guides him forward, which does not mean that things which may have deteriorated may not be perfected.”

“It [the Traditional Mass] will not be imposed on anyone, it does not in any way contradict the current [Mass], the Mass of the Council Fathers was that of Saint Pius V, they did not celebrate the Mass of Paul VI, these two Masses are not be be [mutually] opposed.”

“In the Mass of Saint Pius V there is a ritual expression which is enjoyed by some; there are those who wish to celebrate it occasionally, but without it meaning any disregard, [but] complete respect for the new rite.”

“The Pope wishes to preserve for mankind a treasure which sanctified the Church for more than a thousand years: the rite codified by Saint Pius V; this treasure, this cultural expression, this language which was the language of the Church from the earliest time”. [Benedict XVI] “loves the liturgy [and] does not wish to retroact, does not intend to impose, it is an offer for those who have this sensibility.”

http://fatherjoe.wordpress.com/2007/05/18/cardinal-hoyos-on-motu-propio-for-tridentine-mass/
*************************************************

Given Cardinal Hoyos’ comments, I can’t for the life of me understand why any of the American Bishops, members of the American clergy or any other Roman Catholics for that matter would feel “liturgically threatened” over Catholics being allowed to freely choose to regularly attend the Tridentine Latin Mass - unless they somehow suspect that the restoration of the Latin Mass will result in emptier pews at their “brave new church” liturgies.

Comment from Angela (Angel with an A )
Time: July 1, 2007, 2:43 pm

May the Latin Mass continue to flourish all the world over, especially in America because people here need to remember “truth”! Americans need to stop trying to justify what is wrong, right! Truth cannot be changed!… I love Jesus Christ, his angels and his saints.

Comment from Jeannine
Time: July 1, 2007, 3:50 pm

All of your comments are straight from the heart.
Is it laziness? Do they not know the words? The audacity of the American Cardinals and Bishops amazes me. If the Tridentine mass were available maybe people could go to it. The faithful should not be deprived of their heritage because of the arrogance of American cardinals and bishops. Aren’t they servants? The tradition of the Latin mass is what connects us to the early church is the continuation of the faith, a way of order from one generation to the next.
At the beginning of this article it states that Cardinal O’Malley has his own blog…
perhaps he would like to hear from us.

Comment from Adam T. Rucinski
Time: July 1, 2007, 4:07 pm

It is interesting that the USA needed reconsecration to the Blessed Virgin Mary, and at the initiative of the Papal Nuncio in Nov. 2006. The Papal Nuncio was alone, except for a few US Bishops. Locally, this initiative is not news worthy. Lex Credendi, Lex Orandi. Today, I said to one of the parish priests, the US Church is preparing for its own fireworks on July 7. I am sure that the revival of TLM in the Church is being viewed as non-event. I am very amused how many US Bishops do not know Latin.

I recently attended the funeral of a retired Byzantine Catholic Bishop. Naturally, I was personally involved with my roots in the Byzantine Cathedral. The Rites made me aware of how much the US Latin Church has abandoned. It makes me want to worship in the Byzantine Rite. Today, there are many young Byzantine Rite priests who were Latin Rite before ordination. I know many of them.

Today’s Liturgy readings speak about freedom in following God’s Will. The Feast of St. Peter and St. Paul speaks to the heart of the Church’s mission. Are US Catholics afraid that Holy Father Benedict XVI uses his authority given him as Successor of St. Peter?

Comment from Gladys Lelio-Joseph
Time: July 1, 2007, 5:28 pm

Not only the Latin Mass but the whole atmosphere of the Mass. I went once to a Tridentine Church not long ago and I felt back home, only then I realized that I was somehow lost for so long. Oh! so much respect for our Lord, you feel Yes! that sothething is happening, you feel the spirituality, the need to give the best of yourself, you feel more the sacred church and to give more reverence. Yes right in the front door they put some mentles available for girls and women and yes women can only wear skirts (no mini) and no sleeveless shirt. You feel that God is not Human like us and you feel His divinity and the need to adore, praise and respect him. and yes there were many young people who didn’t seem to have any problem conforming to the laws of the church. In my time only the youth from very low faith families would ever complain about the rules and regulation of the Church. We need a Church with restrictions to feel the difference between going to a meeting and attending to Holy Mass. If the Bishops and priests really wanted to increase more souls to the Catholic Church don’t worry they know very well to give us a Church with more rules. Why should a youth take the time to go to Church when he does not feel the mystical environment. Our church today are just like regular meetings place and priest enjoy to be applaud and encourage laughts and provoque distractions. The list goes on. I pray for all priests everyday but we know most of them are not really priests but chose the vocation for other reasons, social and economical for example and the list goes on beside being a true apostle of Christ. May our Lord send the Holy Spirit on their soul and make real priest out of them. Amen

Comment from Sue Cifelli
Time: July 1, 2007, 5:39 pm

I think what we need to do is take a poll of US/Canadian Catholics to see how many are waiting for the Tridentine to be made available to them. I suspect the response would be an avalanche of support.

I’m sorry that Cardinal O’Malley has responded this way to something so important and held so dear by so many.

Comment from Linda Browning
Time: July 1, 2007, 6:50 pm

I’ve been waiting for the Latin Mass forever. I think there are plenty of people who would attend if they found it available.

Comment from Cyrus
Time: July 1, 2007, 7:10 pm

Sue, great suggestion. Can a poll be set up here? Or maybe even a petition?

Comment from John Juan
Time: July 1, 2007, 7:31 pm

POST A COMMENT ON CARDINAL SEANS blog to let him know how you feel:
http://www.cardinalseansblog.org/?p=1752

p.s. -> please leave all comments with charity :)

Comment from admin
Time: July 1, 2007, 7:55 pm

We are looking at the possibility of creating a petition here on Domus Dei. We’ll keep you posted!!!

Thanks for the comments, everyone!

Comment from steve
Time: July 1, 2007, 8:44 pm

I agree with others who have commented that the existing Trid. Masses would be much better attended if made more convenient in time and place, and better publicised. In Diocese where this has happened, they have thrived. I hope all who wish to see it offered widely will go out of their way to attend it even if it requires some sacrifice. “lack of interest” will have to be proven wrong before many Bishops will give in. It’ s time for us to seize this opportunity so long awaited. We must start by begging, but be willing to demand what we may now call for with the authority of Rome. We must assert our Roman identity if we ever hope to overcome the liberal dominated American clergy. +JMJ+ Steve

Comment from Trebor
Time: July 2, 2007, 4:46 am

The Arlington Virginia Diocese is considered one of the more traditional dioceses in America. Until recently, it was one of only two dioceses that did not allow female altar servers. Given the make-up of the parishioners, when female altar servers were introduced, the bishop felt it would not be well received and granted permission for two parishes to celebrate the Traditional Mass. One of the parishes is in Front Royal Virginia, (not the most populated area) and one of the parishes is in Springfield Virginia ( a very populated area). However, the mass is Springfield is at 12:30. Not exactly an opportune time for families to bring their children to mass.

Despite the Bishop’s calculated attempt to make it difficult to attend the TM, my wife and I take our four children to the TM in Springfield every Sunday. The best child psychologists suggest that children crave structure. I can attest to the fact that my children are more attentive at the TM. In fact, my 3 year old daughter, who was a complete mess at the novus ordo mass we used to attend, is now able to sit for the entire mass without causing a complete disruption to those around us. The difference in my daughter’s behavior is the direct result of the reverence that the TM demands. She knows that silence means to be silent, kind of like walking into a library. At the novus ordo, mayhem begets mayhem. Just look around your mass this Sunday and notice the behavior of the children. Then, come to a TM and look at the children dressed in their Sunday best, sitting quietly in communion with God.

I don’t want to make it sound like this is an overnight change. The difference in the TM and the novus ordo is so vast that the shock is often hard for the little ones to handle. However, keep at it. In fact, at first our oldest daughter (8) and our oldest son (6) were a bit taken aback by the change. But this past Sunday, just after the last Gospel, my daughter looked up at me and said, I really love the Latin Mass Daddy, and then she kissed my cheek. Enough said.

The good Cardinal is definitely wrong. To take a thought from the movie “Field of Dreams” — If you celebrate it, they will come.

Comment from Cindy
Time: July 2, 2007, 7:59 am

Cardinal O’Malley is NOT against the Latin Mass and is NOT a liberal. He is an extremely Holy and humble man and we are so very blessed to have him as head of our Archdiocese. From what I have read on Spirit Daily about the Latin Mass I have understood it to be a choice to offer a Latin Mass if the bishops and priests see that it is requested. It was not a command that Masses HAVE to be in Latin again! Cardinal Sean is fluent in several languages and offers Masses in Spanish and Portuguese in areas heavily populated with those nationalities, so why would he NOT want to have Latin Masses if the people requested them? He is NOT a liberal!!
I myself have spoken to many people who do not want the Latin Mass. I attended a Holy Day of Obligation Vigil Mass in Boston which was said mostly in Spanish, even the homily and was very frustrated that I could not understand what the priest was saying. Latin would be the same way. It’s been years since I attended a Latin Mass and even when I watch a Mass from the Vatican, I find it very frustrated not to be able to understand the readings or the Gospel. The Consecration is one thing, you KNOW what is going on and it is very Holy and sacred and it is understood in any language, but the rest of the Mass cannot be enjoyed and we cannot be fed by the messages given.

Comment from bumpy
Time: July 2, 2007, 10:35 am

let me point out a mistake that keeps getting repeated.
In the ancient Liturgy the priest does NOT have his back to the people. With the tabernacle in it’s rightful place on the high alter the priest is FACING our Lord along WITH the people, praying on their behalf.

In the Novus Ordo Mess, the priest has HIS back to our Saviour adn thus the priest now becomes the center of atention instead of the redeemer……OR, if the tabernacle has been moved aside (shame!) to a side alter then we have cast christ himself to a secdondary position.probably why mother Church is in such a sorry state now.

Comment from Shoshiru Honda
Time: July 2, 2007, 1:57 pm

Cardinal O’Malley is the typical “pro-Vatican II” footsoldier who can not tolerate anything (especially the Tridentine Latin Mass) that calls into question in any way that which came from the Council. He is also a member of the rapidly aging hippy generation for whom the Novus Ordo was fabricated in the first place. Everything in the Church had to be “hip”, modern, up-to-date. Well the Church unfortunatly bought into that culture and agenda with disasterous consequences.
Now it’s time to correct things. People like Cardinal “Sean” don’t like that very much. But like it or not, the correction is coming. Boston’s Cardinal and many other bishops and liberal priests will do their best to undermine the Motu Proprio, but the people are not as stupid as they think.
When the Novus Ordo was introduced, Catholics walked out by the millions. They were not stupid. They didn’t want it.
Now that the Tridentine Latin Mass is coming back, so will many Catholics.
Cardinal “Sean” and company know that. And it embarasses them, because it shows that their 1960’s style liturgy is a failure, and was a failure from Day 1.

Comment from James Knoblach
Time: July 2, 2007, 2:43 pm

Who I am: I am a child of God born into this world over seventy-five years ago (1932), and my given human name is James H. Knoblach.
Grounded in the Catholic Faith: I am grounded in the Catholic Church of my childhood. After a 50 year hiatus from the Church, God’s grace and mercy have given me a second chance. I am now a rock-ribbed catholic to the end, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against me. I attend the Novu Ordo mass several times each week. The current Catholic/Protestant liturgy is for me, a bitter-sweet rite; bitter in terms of the liturgy; and sweet only in the Eucharist. My heart yearns for the Mass of my childhood formation, and my constant prayer is for a return to the Traditional Mass, to Catholic sacramental accoutrements, to a renewed sense of reverence and devotion of the laity, and even more so, that of the clergy. I strive to humbly speak my grief with love, not bombast, and strive always to be a worthy tool of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, via the Immaculate Heart of Mary through her Marian Movement of Priests, and to whom I have consecrated all that I am and have.
My Concern: Modern “Christi-inanity:
I remember clearly those days when our church was a true refuge from a clanging world; vigil candles flickered as a continuing prayer for someone’s special prayer intention. There was a palpable hushed atmosphere of God’s presence. The Tabernacle and large crucifix were situated front and center, above the main altar in the sanctuary always lighted by a sanctuary candle signifying the Presence of the Divine Jesus in the tabernacle. The statuary and art displayed throughout a typical Catholic church would “raise you up on eagles wings”. There was a sense of reverence in God’s House of Prayer. Those who came to worship, and when they departed, if they were physically able, genuflected with the sign of the cross on entering or leaving their pew. The celebrants of the Mass were not rock-star wannabes as I liken them to today.
Many American (European too) parish churches and clerics have turned away from John the Baptist’s admonition: “He must increase; I must decrease”. In so many Catholic churches the representation of Jesus’ crucifixion on the cross, and the Tabernacle wherein the Eucharist resides have been relegated to far corners of the church (some churches have placed the Tabernacle in some back room of the church!)
And why not? The extant post VaticanII notion of Catholicism being promulgated is not conducive to the deepening of one’s faith, reverence or devotion. For example: Our church vestibule doors are wide open and the chatter of conversation invades the church, and offends many a soul’s contemplation in our House of Prayer. Conversation continues as people amble down the aisles and precious few bend their knee in adoration as they ease into a pew and many just continue their idle blathering. Some of our ladies wear skin-tight get-ups, short shorts, or fashions with navels exposed, or low cut frocks. They become an occasion of sin for those poor souls who pray little but ogle much, and a distraction to those who come to truly pray and prepare for Holy Communion. And neither our Pastor nor his assistant priest, appear concerned. I shake my head sometimes to check whether I am in a Catholic church or at the Grand ol’ Opery.
Two Sundays ago, a few minutes from the start of the “mass”, a rock’ n’ roll number came blasting out of the church loud-speaker system and continued for roughly two minutes. My first inclination was either fight or flight. However God gave me the grace to offer this discomfiture up as a prayer of reparation for the world’s sacrileges, blasphemies and indifferences suffered by the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts Of Jesus and Mary, respectively.
The problem of the modern Church is its shallowness. Historically, in this country, we Catholics have always been, and continue to be on the defensive about the truths of our faith. We have acquired a secularly imposed inferiority omplex! Since the so-called ecumenical “touchy-feely” movement has come into vogue, our pop theology is as wide as the Pacific Ocean, but is only about a quarter of an inch deep. We are prepared to accept any and all error, half-truth, and heresy so long as the title “Christian” can be attached. Not Catholic, mind you, just ‘Christian’. Outside of Father Corapi’s or Father Groeschel’s sermons on EWTN television, where do you hear a real sermon, uuhhh, I mean, homily, having everyday utility to the ordinary, or extraordinary member of the laity. We live in a world immersed in sin up to our earholes, which must be the reason we can neither hear nor speak of sin from the pulpit. Where are the Padre Pio’s, the Bishop Sheens, The St John Viannys. People are hungry for Traditional stand-up clerics who aggressively address the morality de jour in plain language and in no uncertain terms. As G. K. Chesterton said: “Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely happen to be walking about”. (Bishops please note.)
The priest, traditionally, is supposed to be in Persona Christi (standing in the person of Christ), a leader imitating Jesus Christ. Even a cursory study of the scriptures shows that Jesus neither pussy-footed around issues, nor stroked Pharisees, Sadducees, Chief Priests’ or Pilates egos. Our American bishops and clerics for the most part are Doctor Phil wannabes decked out in chasubles. If you think this is too harsh, I challenge you to talk to folks after church services, and see how few possess more than a bumper-sticker answer about the subject of the “homily”. I challenge you also to listen for politically correct euphemisms within these homilies that often result in error and half-truths. The problem with half-truth and error is that it pollutes truth and makes it a lie. Hence, we have the reason Christ gave us the parable of the leaven). In Hosea the Lord says: ‘My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge”. Hosea 4,6. YEP! The overwhelming majority of our parishioners are economically comfortable. Of course there are exceptions. However, if expressed gratitude to God for our gifts is seldom voiced, we risk resemblance to, and attendant consequences that St John the evangelist cites for six of the seven churches of Asia Minor. We are living in a very dangerous age, and we must demand from our bishops and priests help and guidance via their pronouncements and/or homilies. St Paul addressed issues squarely, fearlessly and passionately. His sermons are forever. Strive Priests Strive for we passionately hunger for application of the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit through you in your in persona Christi role. First, we must cultivate true reverence and awe of God via the Traditional Latin Mass liturgy. Why have so many (not all) of the “princes of the church” in the post Vatican II Western world put the kibosh on a successful liturgy inspired by the Holy Spirit that dates back 1500 years?? Is it possible these denizons of the shallows refuse to realize that Truth is timeless; eternal, as is error no matter how attractively dressed in linguistic trappings? It is high time the Truth, who is Jesus; traceable back to Him, be made available again to the faithful via the true Tridentine liturgy. We should all pray to God, fervently, for the success of Pope Benedict XVI’s coming Motu Proprio, for our good and for the rescue of our nearly comatose church. We must also pray fervently for the reconversion of our wayward bishops and clerics that they may receive the light of the Holy Spirit. For those who will pass from this life persisting in their errors and unrepentent, let’s take up a second Sunday collection worldwide to purchase asbestos albs and mitres which will come in handy in their final destination.
God’s Peace and Grace to all.

Comment from katie
Time: July 2, 2007, 3:04 pm

In re to Michael Nixon

Why is it that people question the validity of the novus ordo and not the TLM? Maybe the reason people have problems with “deeper issues” -maybe vat.II_ as you put it , is because maybe there IS a problem with it. Did you ever consider cause and effect? Is there ever a time in the church’s history that this effect has occurred after a council? The idea that one has to read and engage what the church has been saying after vat.ii is proof enough. It has been 40 years since the church has engaged in what was taught at the council and it still hasn’t figure out if it was interpreted correctly. If you think the church has been going in the right direction in “following” the council’s suggestions, then tell that to the prelates and ask them to explain why catholics have been leaving the church to foster devotion in the “separated brethren’s” buildings or leaving the church altogether? Ecumenical wishful thinking will leave you faithless.

chuck

Comment from Michael Nixon
Time: July 1, 2007, 10:53 am

I think maybe some people might be reading a bit too much into what the Cardinal said, as if he were in some sort of “liberal” or “anti-Roman” and I would respectfully encourage those people to examine their own attitudes towards the subject. O’Malley makes a comment about his own predictions about the number of people who will attend, and automatically his orthodoxy is questioned. It would seem to me that some of the people who commented have some deeper issues- maybe with Vatican II, or even questioning the validity of the “Novus Ordo” Mass itself. If that is the case, then you need to start really reading and engaging with what the Church has been saying, instead of waiting around for a Vatican pronouncement to vindicate your own beliefs. I am a fan of the Tridentine Mass, though I would prefer a properly celebrated Novus Ordo Mass, and I take issue with those who think the Mass is somehow “better” if we hear “Dominus vobiscum” instead of “the Lord be with you”. Just some thoughts. God Bless.
>>I also appreciate the insights from James Dobkowski above, you are right on for the unitive factor of Latin in the liturgy, though I would add that the increase of Latin within the context of the Novus Ordo could also help with that issue.

Comment from Michael Nixon
Time: July 1, 2007, 10:53 am

I think maybe some people might be reading a bit too much into what the Cardinal said, as if he were in some sort of “liberal” or “anti-Roman” and I would respectfully encourage those people to examine their own attitudes towards the subject. O’Malley makes a comment about his own predictions about the number of people who will attend, and automatically his orthodoxy is questioned. It would seem to me that some of the people who commented have some deeper issues- maybe with Vatican II, or even questioning the validity of the “Novus Ordo” Mass itself. If that is the case, then you need to start really reading and engaging with what the Church has been saying, instead of waiting around for a Vatican pronouncement to vindicate your own beliefs. I am a fan of the Tridentine Mass, though I would prefer a properly celebrated Novus Ordo Mass, and I take issue with those who think the Mass is somehow “better” if we hear “Dominus vobiscum” instead of “the Lord be with you”. Just some thoughts. God Bless.
>>I also appreciate the insights from James Dobkowski above, you are right on for the unitive factor of Latin in the liturgy, though I would add that the increase of Latin within the context of the Novus Ordo could also help with that issue.

Comment from halpin
Time: July 2, 2007, 4:24 pm

Not to throw cold water on the Motu Proprio (I really welcome it), but I’m concerned about the co-existance of the two style of masses “under the same roof.” I can see it now: at the 7:00 am TLM, you’ll have the faithful wearing veils, genuflecting before the tabernacle, kneeling for communion, etc. At the 9:00 NO mass, you’ll have people wearing shorts, bowing before the tabernacle, standing for communion. I know “externals” don’t mean everything, but I just can’t see how these two vastly different styles can co-exist with friction. Someone will have to compromise.

My biggest fear: the TLM will become sort of NO-like, and the NO will become a little more TLM-like. While I think there’s plenty of room to increase reverence at the NO, I don’t want to see a “watered-down” TLM. I believe that is also the greatest fear of the SSPX followers and other traditionalist.

Can someone tell me where I’m off base?

Comment from Frances Marie Breitfelder
Time: July 2, 2007, 7:49 pm

I surely hope that we do not see a merging of the NO into the
TLM, but I fear that will try, if we get it at all.

Comment from John Juan
Time: July 2, 2007, 8:55 pm

In response to “Cindy” from above

Cindy said:
“From what I have read on Spirit Daily about the Latin Mass I have understood it to be a choice to offer a Latin Mass if the bishops and priests see that it is requested. It was not a command that Masses HAVE to be in Latin again!”

Two points: according to the Motu Proprio, yes, the Tridentine *has* to be offered if 30 or more people request it. That is, a Priest would *no longer* need permission from the Bishop. Secondly, its not only about the Mass being “in Latin” — a Novus Ordo can be done in Latin — it’s about the Tridentine Liturgy.

Cindy said: “Cardinal Sean is fluent in several languages and offers Masses in Spanish and Portuguese in areas heavily populated with those nationalities, so why would he NOT want to have Latin Masses if the people requested them? He is NOT a liberal!!”

Again, you are caught up on the language aspect. Please, read a little bit about the Tridentine Mass before making these comments. Its a different LITURGY. One of the problems of abandoning the Tridentine is now the need for this multiplicity of languages in one parish.

Cindy said:
“I myself have spoken to many people who do not want the Latin Mass. I attended a Holy Day of Obligation Vigil Mass in Boston which was said mostly in Spanish, even the homily and was very frustrated that I could not understand what the priest was saying. Latin would be the same way.”

You seem very confused indeed! At the Tridentine Liturgy the homily is done in the vernacular language! The Gospels and readings are as well. Please do your research, I can see that those “against” the TLM are against it for the wrong reasons. They don’t even understand it!

Cindy Said:
“It’s been years since I attended a Latin Mass and even when I watch a Mass from the Vatican, I find it very frustrated not to be able to understand the readings or the Gospel. The Consecration is one thing, you KNOW what is going on and it is very Holy and sacred and it is understood in any language, but the rest of the Mass cannot be enjoyed and we cannot be fed by the messages given.”

Homilies from the Vatican are usually given in Italian, the language of the people, NOT LATIN. Latin is never a problem for those attending the Tridentine Liturgy… they KNOW it, simply by simple education and repetition. How hard is it to learn the prayers of the Church in Latin??? Not very. All those who even go to Latin Novus Ordos can recite all the Latin prayers and know them.

Comment from Pax
Time: July 3, 2007, 6:29 am

It’s absolutely amazing how cardinals of the Church boldly lie continually about their modernist/progressive positions that aim at destroying our Sacred Traditions of the Roman Catholic faith. They harp about the small numbers of Roman Catholics out there who oppose their modernist position, which is all but Protestantism/atheism, and remark how insignificant they are, but engage in every ruse to suppress the movement. Every Catholic should realize that when Latin is under attack in the Roman Catholic heirarchy of the Church red flags should be waving vigorously. This is the language of the Roman Catholic Church. That would be like telling the Jews not to speak hebrew any longer. The Muslims to drop Arabic as their language. It won’t happen, and it shouldn’t be happening in the Roman Catholic Church. The Traditional movment is growing leaps and bounds because Roman Catholics desire to be Roman Catholic. That won’t stop. The Christ won’t allow it. Vatcan II seeths with deception, and double cross. Thank GOD for The Council of Trent, a truly full, spirit filled Council that voices the Word of GOD! Vatican II has Arian all over it-slick, oily, black in nature, and covered with the plague of confusion.

Comment from William A. Torchia, Esquire
Time: July 3, 2007, 7:19 am

Cardinal O’Malley cannot see the forest for the trees. He has had a deaf ear to the hearts of the lost sheep in his diocese. Did not the sheppard leave the ninety-nine to find the one lost sheep? But Cardinal O’Malley and his aging colleagues in red, will soon be retired and perhaps a more balanced view of the Mass of All Time will be understood by their successors. We simply have to wait il Cardinal O’Malley and the other modernist hierarchy retire or pass on, so that a new generation of Catholics and clergy will rise, not poisoned by the failed experiment (Modernism) called Vatican II, the biggest eccesial and historical bomb that has ever been dropped on the Church. But God knows better and has taught his Church a lesson with the punishment He has unleashed upon it for uncountable sacriliges that have been committed in the name of Vatican II. Empty churches, empty seminaries, empty convents, these are the fruits of the New Pentecost and the New Springtime in the Church. And our Lord told us, “good trees bear good fruit.” Let us judge Vatican II by its fruits. They speak for themselves. God is not mocked.

Comment from marsha anne
Time: July 3, 2007, 7:33 am

I am a cradle Catholic and was raised with the Latin Mass.
When the language changed, my mother was in tears—–she had never experienced the beautiful meaning of the prayers because of just plain flat not understanding Latin,distractions,and not REALLY seeing what the priest was doing. sometimes this gave in to boredom—-sorry, but we have to be honest, here!! She told and I qoute ” I had no clue”! (not just the meaning of the prayers but of what the priest was actually doing!) Even with prayer book translations, it still didn’t cut it!! People would look at each other’s prayer book to see what page you should be on! I took 3 years of Latin in High School, myself, but when we had a complete Latin Mass here a couple of years ago, it was like going back in a time capsule. Just confusion and distraction, and a little frustration….I felt the same reaction from others around! Even our Bishop seemed disoriented a bit! 1 am certainly not AGAINST the Latin Mass, it has it’s own beauty—– I was raised with it, and it is sentimental to me! But to pray with the heart, one must know what is being spoken. I don’t believe that reverence has anything to do with any given language.
Cardinal Sean Patrick O’Malley, who by the way, walked into a living a nightmare,is one of the holiest, most humble servants of God, in the beautiful spirit of St. Francis. He is not from my diocese, but I have had occasions to hear him speak, and have been with him before at Capuchin functions. Boston is blessed to have him. I probably have a lot to learn a bout my Church, but I know that this man is NOT A LIBERAL. He devoted to the Eucharist and Divine Mercy and Our Lady, and also the poor in his diocese! God bless the people who love the Latin Mass, and God bless the people who love the vernacular!!I attended one Mass, here in my diocese, where it was kind of bilingual—-English Latin—it was very nice. It maybe not hard to memorize the prayers which is what we had to do, but honestly speaking it was not very meaningful, and I’m not just speaking for myself, I am speaking from my experience and from my heart! Most of us growing up, couldn’t wait for Mass to be over and done with. (again brutal honesty). Now, many times, I wish it wouldn’t end!
By the way, do you think that Jesus at the Last Supper, spoke to His friends in a language they didn’t understand!
By the way what WAS that language?!!!

Comment from Cindy
Time: July 3, 2007, 7:44 am

Comments to Mr. John Juan. First of all, we are all very blessed to have been given the freedom of religion and to choose what religion we want to practice, how we want to practice it and where we want to practice it. We are so very fortunate, unlike so many in other countries – China for example, where we do not need a permit to have a Mass celebrated. I was born a Catholic and would never want to be anything other than a Catholic being that it is the one true church. We also have been given the freedom to say what we want about whatever we choose. Mr. Juan, you have said your peace, I have said mine. If you choose to insist that our Masses must be said Latin, so be it. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I am not, however, forced to agree with you or anyone else. The Latin Mass was indeed very beautiful, but personally I prefer Mass in English. It enables me to pray more fervently and to grasp the message of the Gospel and homily in a deeper way. Those are my feelings and opinions and do not need to be argued with about them.

The main point I wanted to get across was that Cardinal Sean O’Malley is an extremely humble, holy, and dedicated servant of the Catholic church and does not deserve to be bashed as he is with this article and with this blog. He was placed in a horribly difficult situation when he was assigned to Boston and has done a magnificent job trying to bring the Archdiocese together again and build trust that Cardinal Law destroyed. He is succeeding very well and does not deserve to be spoken of in such a horrible way.

I graduated from high school over 31 years ago and do not wish to banter back and forth about what people’s opinions are. Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am sticking to mine just as I know all of you will stick to yours. It’s a free country, thank God. And I will not be bullied with harsh comments from anyone.

Comment from George Mitchel
Time: July 3, 2007, 9:39 am

His eminence knows better. He’s deluding only himself and the “convenient catholics” who put up with all the liturgical abuses. More True Masses - Masses “of all times” - can only increase the graces Heaven provides the earth. More graces –> more true Masses –> more graces - a “Heavenly cycle!” Then, Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart will have prevailed! Deo Gratias!

I think there are an awful lot of priests, Bishops, and Cardinals running scared.

Comment from MICHAEL
Time: July 3, 2007, 11:06 am

We cannot forget that true traditionalism has never been about homemade popes and costume party bishops; we are not our own magisterium; no one elected us judge and jury of Peter’s successors! We are Catholics who, in the midst of the direst crisis since the Arian Heresy, are simply clinging to the old Faith as it was taught in Catholic homes, parishes and schools by Catholic nuns and priests and parents for two thousand years. In other words, we’re doing exactly what we were ordered to do by Christ’s duly appointed representatives on this earth just forty years ago. We’ve invented nothing new. We didn’t change. Our Mass didn’t change. Our catechism didn’t change. Our Rosary didn’t change. We are simply trying as best we know how to keep the old Faith as we were taught to do under pain of mortal sin, being prepared (again, as we were taught) to die rather than deny any aspect of that holy Faith. This is done, not out of arrogance, but out of obedience, simple necessity and urgent concern for our immortal souls, the salvation of which is the first responsibility of all the children of God and would-be heirs of heaven. Nothing else matters

Comment from Deborah
Time: July 3, 2007, 1:46 pm

To James Knoblach - Well said! I think the most poignant and on point statement was with regards to John the Baptist, “I must decrease and He must increase.” The obstinate refusal to “decrease” is in a large part the reason for the wishy-washy liturgies. The virtue of humility in serving the Lord is beyond them, just as the virtue of obedience is absent and not tolerated. How many of us have been subjected to eye-rolling abuses by ‘Fr. Razzamatazz.’ Is it any wonder at all that the congregants then lose their way and lose their understanding of what is really happening as the veil between heaven and earth is being pulled away at the consecration. Thus, the constant “blathering” and inappropriate attire among the congregants - they have no clue as to what it is they are participating.

As far as Martha Anne’s comments regarding the use of Latin. First of all, Latin is the Holy Catholic Church’s language. “In the ‘old days’” you could travel to any location on God’s good earth and attend a Mass and know it was true - the Mass being said in Buenos Aires was the same Mass being said in Cologne, Germany, or Brisbane, Australia absent any “personal touches”. Secondly, what is lacking is education and catechesis. As far as my memory will stretch, the readings and the Gospel were said in English and the sacred prayers were said in Latin - with English alongside. I was taught what was going on and my parents filled in anything my Catholic school may have missed (I am 53 and was about 12 or so when the Novus Ordo Mass was being implemented). Thirdly, and most sadly, people have lost the sense of awe and sacred mystery as to what is happening - it is truly “other worldly.” People have the responsibility of educating themselves and to search for truth. Many people, once they’ve graduated from Catholic school or have finished with Cathechism after they receive the Sacrament of Confirmation, think that’s it! It is not! It is our responsibility to continue in educating ourselves in the Catholic Faith. There are so many means of getting information especially in this day!

Yes, I will attend a Latin Mass and recall and appreciate my roots in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. And hopefully, it will be reverently and well done. May the Holy Spirit enlighten and guide God’s One True Church.

Comment from Anne Marie
Time: July 9, 2007, 6:55 pm

The intent of the Holy Father is to draw Catholics back into unity. It appears to me after reading several of these blogs, that there is still a “we/they” mentality. It seems to me that the more urgent need for the Universal Church is to look beyond the rubrics, to what the Mass really is… a true participation in the Heavenly Liturgy, where we hear the Word of God proclaimed, we offer ourselves with the gifts of bread and wine through the hands of the priest, who stands in the person of Jesus Christ. We are participating in the Wedding Feast of the Lamb!!! I don’t think it matters whether we kneel for Communion and receive the host on the tongue, or stand and receive both forms. What truly matters, my dear brothers and sisters, is the number of Catholic Christians who attend no Mass at all; the number of Catholic Christians who do not have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ; the number of Catholic Christians who don’t even own a Bible, let alone use one; the Catholic Christians who have been embittered by Church politics; the 30 somethings generation of Catholic Christians (and younger) who have never been given the gift of faith by their parents (the ones who show up to receive the sacraments and have their parties, but you never see them again) Fellow Catholics, I truly believe that these brothers and sisters of ours are not lacking in their faith because of what is going on inside the Church building at Mass, but because we, collectively, have failed to teach and pass on the faith. We have failed to BE Eucharist. We are good at “facts” and rules, but we are not so good at helping to transform hearts for God. My prayer is that we might truly someday be the Universal Church; not in the way we worship at Mass, but by the way we draw others to Jesus Christ. The Liturgy belongs to God, He has entrusted it to the Church. The Holy Spirit will safeguard it through the ages and times. As the Apostles on the road to Emmaus, our hearts need to burn when we hear God’s Word proclaimed and we receive Him, body blood, soul and divinity. We need to get out of the “building” and start filling God’s Church with His people…ALL of His people. Amen.

Comment from Awk
Time: July 17, 2007, 6:09 am

This blog shows you how out of touch some clergy really are when it comes to the traditional liturgy. Unbelievably, after over forty years of suppression, it is still believed by some that nobody has any interest in the traditional liturgy. How can that be a surprise when for the first 20 years after VatII the American bishops did not allow any priest to say it anywhere! I gave up a long time even asking for it. Of course you don’t know who wants it! Now there is a whole generation of ‘catholics’ who know nothing of the traditions. In fact, at several Christmas Masses I’ve been to, not even ONE traditional English hymn was sung let alone Latin. It’s like everything before VacII became illegal. So why would there be any large number of people asking to have the old mass liturgy. You’ve made it a point of derision, a joke, not worth knowing, left it out of education, talked about it as old fashion and outdated, called us kooks, destroyed the old missals, stopped using latin completely, removed kneeler’s, flipped the altar around, came up with new buzz words like people of God; community, …. the list goes on…. Tell me someone!; Why do I have to drive 75 miles one way , just to attend a traditional mass for the last three years. That’s 150 miles every Sunday and Holy day! Why? Because the clergy are not approachable on the subject. At best you’ll get one mass a month at 3pm. That’s not what we want or need. We need a traditional LIFE with regular traditional mass at a real parish, right alone side our Novus Ordo brother and sisters and their form of liturgy. Why shouldn’t there be a parish life for us too! My children go to both forms of the same liturgy, they know their prayers in Latin and English, they prefer the traditional mass liturgy an it’s music bit do not resist the new, they can follow a traditional missal, sing chant, and are not the least bit confused that the Mass is the Mass in either form. My son server as an altar boy at both forms of the liturgy. He does prefer the traditional form, but he still respects and serves the new. There is hope now; Hope that we keep our traditions alive and can see the beauty of the traditional latin Mass.

Comment from Hans Jaegerstatter
Time: September 18, 2007, 11:35 am

Christianity is a MYSTERY religion. It has been from the beginning. Some intellectual understanding of what happens during Mass is important, but the traditional Mass appeals to elements within us that TRANSCEND intellect. Because of this, wise men and fools can attend the same Mass and reap the same benefits. In the traditional Mass, all senses are employed and are caught up in the Mystery that occurs on the altar. The continuity and “sameness” of the Old Mass bind us to one another around the world and to our ancestors and the Church Triumphant.

The traditional Mass is a vehicle that takes us to a predetermined spiritual destination because we SUBMIT ourselves to its’ gentle rigors and demands. It is not something that men “made” to get to God. It is something that GOD made to bring us to Him. This is what sacred ritual and liturgy has always been about.

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